This video speaks of the divorce of “Word” churches and “Spirit” church. I want to offer up some thoughts on what defines these types of churches , what causes division between these groups, and how our group attempts to walk the middle line.

Word Churches
from the video – “We need to get back to: expository preaching, know our doctrine, earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints, the teaching of Luther, Calvin, Jonathan Edwards.”
Churches under the Word look to the Bible as the lens for their worldview. Living biblically, preaching biblically, evangelizing biblically are all paramount. Interpretation of difficult passages of Scripture is most often done by checking the Greek/Hebrew and checking the exact ways hard words are used in other verses. Verses about various mystic practices, be they prophecy, healing, or tongues, are usually avoided. Individual devotions are usually focused on a time of scripture and Bible study. Worship is usually led by a single person or team of people, with little or no time of open worship for individuals to sing apart from guidance.

Spirit Churches
from the video – “We need to get back to: the book of Acts – signs, wonders, miracles, gifts of the Spirit. get in Peter’s shadow, your healed. Lie to the Holy Ghost, you’re stuck dead. And until we have that kind of power, we go nowhere.”
Churches under the Spirit look to the Holy Spirit as the lens for their worldview. Walking with the Spirit, speaking by the Spirit, evangelizing in the Spirit. Interpretation of difficult passages of Scripture is most often done by asking the Spirit what this passage means globally, or just what this passage means to me. Dwelling on the finer points of doctrine is not usually a priority, as it is understood that doctrine does not transform, the Spirit does. Worship is either directed by an individual or small team, but most often there are open times for individuals to express themselves – whether this means singing apart from others, dancing, shaking, and whatever else the Spirit leads, as crazy as it may be.

You may not agree with those definitions precisely – I wouldn’t blame you, I honestly haven’t been a part of a huge sample of both types of churches. But for purposes of this discussion, that’s what we’re going with.

The Divorce

It would be bad enough if these groups amicably operated apart from each other. A mere “agree to disagree” if you will. But that’s not the case – as is the case in many divorces, there’s criticism on both sides of the fence. They may be well-meaning, they may even be true, but at the end of the day they divide. Here is my understanding of how each group views the other.

What the Word churches say about the Spirit churches: The baptism of the Holy Spirit isn’t real. Too much these churches do is based in emotion and conjured up. Being slayed in the spirit/tongues/healings/etc. is manufactured, misleading, not real… or worse, being led by leaders that deceive.

What the Spirit churches say about the Word churches: Bickering about points of doctrine and meaning of words does not glorify God. In fact, a solid doctrine and not listening for the voice of the Spirit is a wasted life. If you memorize the Bible but can’t hear what God is telling you now, who cares? Their worship is at best dispassionate and at worse, lifeless.

Don’t mishear me – the vast majority of people on either side don’t slander the others – but it doesn’t take very many people to convince a much larger group about the other “side”.

The Middle

So where does that leave us? With two sides that have split apart from one so far that there is no hope for reconciliation? I don’t think so. It can’t be that way. The worst part of this split is that each side is unable to see the other side’s great parts.

By no strength or planning of our own, our church has been a grand experiment in how the middle of this looks. As of this moment, a quick review of the adults in our group shows that we are very close to a 45/55 split for Word/Spirit-background believers. Its close enough that we have no choice to meet in the middle. What does that look like?

It looks like a community learning to find balance through the strengths of others.
It looks like seeking the Lord for what he would have us do.
It looks like encouraging the formerly Word people to step out in the Spirit and encouraging the formerly Spirit people to study the Word deeply and daily.
It looks like finding unity in things that are eternal and not fighting over things that are temporal.
It looks like pouring over the Word in matters that we are ignorant or lacking unity, and then seeking the Spirit in how to proceed.
It looks like a community that melts away differences and focuses on the Lord.

At the end of the day, you may just have to come and see. Words on a computer screen can only go so far… maybe I’m just making this all up. Maybe I’m all talk, no walk.

As I said in my last post:

“One of the values we hold dear to is hospitality – so I offer you an open invitation – we’d love for you to come visit us. From wherever, whenever you like, with you and as many friends as you’d like. We don’t even need very long notice – just give me a call on my cell phone: 770-309-8213.

See you soon.

“There’s a level of maturity and self-control in being able to simultaneously disagree with a church’s structure and doctrine, while at the same time, being able to humbly join in worship at that church as if you were anywhere else.”

As I said above, this could be common spiritual sense. I guess that makes me spiritually dense.
This all came about in an interesting, round-about way. You see, a good friend of mine attends a very large church near to our homes. As he and I have become better friends, our conversations have turned to spiritual things, occasionally to how his big church and our tiny little house church are setup. And sometimes those conversations turn into arguments, or perhaps a better way to describe it would be “discussions.”

I’ve expressed how it appears to me that their worship services can seem more like concerts and less like worship, particularly when secular songs are a highlight of the service. How I am concerned that while the church is extremely effective at drawing people to the building, a large percent of the people can be completely nameless and uncommitted for their entire time as members. How spiritual growth, depth, leadership, and vision can be inhibited by merely the structure of the church.

And my friend has listened to my rantings with much patience. Probably with more grace than I gave him, based on my reading of the previous paragraph. And so I’ve cheer leaded house church, explained how our meeting is setup, how we try and let the Holy Spirit and no person lead the meeting. And how we are deeply involved in one another’s lives, and call those who would walk along with us to this same level of involvement.

Through all of this, my friend still decided to come and visit our meeting one Sunday evening. I was grateful that he was willing to try something much different than he was used to. The next weekend, on Sunday morning, I decided to wake up early in the morning on Sunday and go out to his big church with him. I think this surprised him, as based on my ranting, it would seem that I thought this church had fallen away from God and we’d be better off if it just closed its doors today. This is simply an ugly byproduct for my zeal for the way we do things at our church. As if we knew the best way. While I certainly believe it’s the best way (and that’s why I’m pursuing it), I don’t know everything that God’s doing and everything he’s leading people through.

Trust me, one of the primary temptations I face when visiting another church is a taking on a prideful smugness about how much better we are than these guys. How our worship is sweeter to God’s ears (not true), how our teachings are more deeply rooted in God’s word (who knows), how our members hear God’s voice clearer (like you could even know that!). If these thoughts and sins take over, then not only am I missing out on a chance to draw close to the Lord, I’m elevating myself and putting glory on my own church. This is something I have no desire to do.

So all said, God’s bringing my through this. I was able to worship and learn and engage when I visited his church that day.

One last thing – I have a few challenges to offer up to you:

– If you attend a traditional type church, have you taken the time to consider how your church operates, and what changes drastic or small could make a huge difference in member’s lives? Have you ever thought of attending a group with a radically different structure than your own?

– If you attend a house church/organic church/whatever type church, were you drawn to this type of church out of disdain or anger for the traditional church? Are you able to draw close to God and let distractions fade when attending a traditional church?

– If you don’t attend any church, examine in your heart why that is. If you have some specific reason about a specific church… well there’s lots of churches in the sea, don’t let a group of people be the thing preventing you from drawing close to God. If you just slowly faded away from God and/or the church… I can assure you he’d be glad to take you back.

Thanks for reading!

1. On House Church – Part One – Intro
2. On House Church – Part Two – The Meeting
3. On House Church – Part Three – The Monies
4. On House Church – Part Four – The Leadership

Today we’re going to talk about the house church/simple church model of “doing church.” The purpose of this post and/or series of posts is not to explain why other models are bad, but why house church is good.

But first, a short history lesson.

About three-ish years ago, our great friends the d10s felt that God was calling them to host a house church in their home. Heather and I were invited to be a part of this, as well as several others. Since then, we’ve grown and learned so much about the Lord, and about growing closer to one another in community. The meeting has changed nights, changed locations, changed members (both leaving and coming) drastically, and much more.

During this time we’ve learned a lot about church, what the bible says about church, and what to do in the event of all sorts of situations. And throughout that entire time, we’ve found our approach to be the most biblically sound approach to church, as laid out by the New Testament. That’s not to say our group perfectly lives out what we see in the Bible about church, but that our vision and what our meetings look like try to reflect what we see in the Bible.

Ben, in explaining what I said in the paragraph more effectively than I, said the following (paraphrase):

“Since we’ve started doing church this way, I’ve read through the New Testament several times. And with this way, there’s no ‘gotcha’ verses that I have to ignore or downplay to fit into my framework of church.”

That probably conveys my point as much as anything else I could say would. We’ve found a peace and steadiness in both our ecclesiology as well as our community that we didn’t necessarily find previously.

So where does that leave me as far as the traditional church goes? Do I hate it and everything it stands for? Hardly. I still feel honor and respect toward the traditional church goes, as well as many believers I know that are a part of it. I will say though that as a result of not being a part of this type of church after 3 years does make it more difficult to relate and understand the particular methods some churches employ – my thinking being that I’ve stepped back, and now some things just seem so alien, so strange.

In [potential] future posts, we can explore some of the specifics that makes what we do work, and what makes it different than what others do. If you would like such posts, you know how to contact me (and if you don’t: email, gmail chat, blog comment, facebook message, homing pidgeon, etc.).

Heather and I, as well as a few others, have been discussing the nature of freedom in a Christian sense. Not so much as the freedom from sin in Christ, but more the freedom to act, go, and say as we are guided by the Holy Spirit.

I would say besides the depth of community we’re just now beginning to grow in to after a few years in house church, this freedom has been one of the more impactful things I’ve enjoyed since moving away from a more traditional church setting.

Succintly, such freedom is…

Coming to terms with the fact that the New Covenant is not just an updated version of the old Law, which was a law of bondage, but that it is a law of liberty. A liberty that extends to all parts of the Christian’s life, and that is only tempered by the role of the Holy Spirit in his and those around him’s lives.

Perhaps this doesn’t seem particularly mind-blowing to you. And in writing, it’s really not. Coming to actually live like it was true is a whole different story.

I think the freedom I speak of is best described in examples:

With regard to where we go:

- It’s the freedom that lets Heather and I go dancing at a club (Opera, to be specific), and be completely wrapped up in each other, despite the drunkenness and foolishness going on around us. I felt freedom from the Lord for us to go, and had a great time.

- It’s the freedom that lets Heather and I go hang out with a bunch of buzzed and/or sloshed old friends and just-met friends at a bar and feel at ease and not be wrapped up in judgment. Ironically, we met a couple that night and talked to them/encouraged them for awhile about communal living and moving toward a house church-type environment. We simply would not have met them, had we not gone.

With regard to the believers close to us:

- It’s the freedom that lets me talk openly (and sometimes in jokes =) about Heather and I working with a marriage counselor about various issues. There’s no shame or judgment, because I trust those I share with are operating from a similar place of freedom.

- It’s the freedom that lets us talk about the no-no topics typically avoided in traditional settings. To be more clear, that would be: sex, struggling with pornography, trouble with money and/or debt, etc. It’s not necessarily easy, but we have found freedom to discuss such things.

With regard to what we do and say:

- It’s the freedom that lets me say the word: “damn”. or “ass”. Or any other word, for that matter. Taking the Lord’s name in vain has alot more to do with calling on the Lord after you’ve done the exact opposite of what He’s counseled you to do, and then blaming him when he doesn’t come through for you, than it does with the singular phrase, “God damn it.”

- It’s the freedom to have a beer. Or a glass of wine. Or really any type of food or drink.

Perhaps you don’t agree with all of these. What’s great is, even if I was completely wrong on one (or more!) of these, I have two huge boons that the New Covenant made a reality, that didn’t exist before:

- The Holy Spirit. The still, quiet, steady voice that guides. Inasmuch as I am able to hear His voice, I have freedom to enjoy life fully, and not get tangled up in a hyper-detailed code of law. (Hear me properly – I don’t have freedom to sin. But inasmuch as I what I do doesn’t damage myself, those around me, or my relationship with the Spirit, I am free.)

- The Body. I can’t always hear the Spirit speaking in to my life. Frankly, it can be quite difficult. But that’s just fine, and even by design. I am surrounded by believers who know about all things listed above. And they can hear the Spirit just as clearly as me. And they have responsibility that if they received a word for me about what I do or say, to tell me.

That about covers it. Feel free to comment or reply as you see fit, all thoughts are welcome!

[note/commentary: it seems silly to write some of those examples, as some reading them would consider them basic/"duh" type stuff. I tried to write this post to believers from all different sorts of places and worldviews, so to any given person, some of them would have to appear to be plainly obvious.]

We’ll just get right to it. I fundamentally struggle with whether having my own child is an act of selfishness when God [has broke/is breaking] my heart regarding HIS heart for neglected children and the unborn, and what part I could have in that. Or put another way – why would I bring my own child in to the world when there are millions already being aborted and unwanted that need parents just as badly as my own children would?

Perhaps selfishness isn’t the fairest word. Perhaps it would be better worded to say that I struggle with whether it’s God’s call on my life to have my own children rather than adopt… and ignoring that call would be selfishness.

There’s always danger in the zeal with this sort of thing. It’s happened innumerable number of times throughout history, believing something God told you so fiercely and deeply that you begin to think that it MUST apply to every other believer. I know both Heather and I have done that regarding another call on our lives, the call to missions, but that’s another story.

It’s funny how I feel I need to disclaim my words at the beginning of this post, before I’ve even said anything. I know some people read what I say above and immediately feel the need to go look for God’s command to Abraham about being fruitful and multiplying.

But the problem with fruit (in the literal sense) is that if there’s more of it than can be eaten (or if we’re talking about children, cared for), it rots. If the positive fruits of the command to be “fruitful and multiply” is the joy of children and family, the sinful results of the same command being twisted are abortion, neglect, and forced poverty… or summed up in one word, rot. At this point in my life, I feel that adoption is the primary way that God redeems the sinful results of the twisted of this particular command.

So at the end of day (which is coincidentally only 10 minutes from now) I’m still left with the question… what would God have me do? I guarantee Heather and I will be seeking his heart further about that question.

I assure you that you’ll find out the answer there as well, by whether we announce an adoption or a pregnancy in the future =).

This post is alittle bit different than the last. Originally I felt the need to speak only of my intentions and discoveries, without any encumberance of argument and discussion about the topic of abortion.

This time, I’m speaking to those of you who consider yourselves pro-life as well as a follower of Christ. I would encourage those of you who don’t consider yourself both of those things to read along as I hope you will find this post to be encouraging and thought-provoking.

The pro-life movement’s ultimate goal is to bring about the end of abortion. Typically, this would entail a ban at the governmental level on abortion procedures. This goal is basically the sum of various groups who hold abortion to be wrong, be they Christian or otherwise. I see the issue differently:

The end of abortion in the U.S., or even the world, is not the ultimate goal for me. The glorification of God through the actions, faith, and changed hearts of people on earth is.

This doesn’t mean I don’t support banning abortion. I certainly do and given the chance to vote I would support a ban of the procedure all together. Abortion is a sin, and it grieves the heart of God when it happens. But it just isn’t that simple, and its definitely not the only thing that is wicked in the eyes of God. There are a multitude of other sins that are entangled with the act of an abortion that extend way beyond the actual death of a baby. As I understand it, two large parts of that fall on the body of Christ:

1. We haven’t provided an alternative to abortion for women who feel trapped by one or more of the following:
- the demands of their parents for an abortion
- the financial obligations of raising a child
- the weak men who were certainly happy to share in the responsibility of “making” the baby but not in raising it, and tell the mother they will abandon them if they don’t abort it.

I place the blame for this on the church, not the government. For you larger churches with bigger budgets, where is the free daycare, job training, education, and counseling for women shunned by their boyfriends or families? For you smaller churches and house churches, do your members not have a spare bedroom? To save a life, would it really be so crazy for a woman and her child to stay with you for a time, even a year? Would it be messy? Definitely. Would you get manipulated, used, taken advantage of? Very possibly. Yes it would be a sacrifice. Yes it would stretch you to the point of breaking.

But imagine the fruit of such a sacrifice. Imagine the love and acceptance poured in to the lives of the mother and child. Imagine what hope and joy could come from such an action. God would effectively be re-writing history for that entire family. Cutting off a legacy of rejection and shame and replacing it with a blessing of life and fruitfulness.

2. Worse than even that, we pile shame on both those who have sex before marriage and even more shame on those who would consider having an abortion. Now hear my heart on this, don’t misunderstand. Do you think shaming someone really prevents abortion? Was shame what drew your heart to Christ? Was Jesus’ ministry such that shame from Christians is what changed people’s hearts? There is a time and place for conviction, but a woman on the verge of aborting her baby is NOT IT.

If the church continues to have this attitude that pre-marital sex and abortion are too henious to be discussed, we remain irrelevant on this topic and never will have the opportunities to minister to women as described in the paragraphs above, as women will not consider the church a safe place to even discuss it.

I do not wish to mis-characterize the actions and hearts of many pro-life believers. There are many people who DO care, and are pouring their lives, hearts, and fortunes out for those who would consider abortion. There are hotlines, counselours, homes for mothers to live in for free with their baby, etc, etc. But in general, even among committed followers of Christ, there is a callousness and a lack of passion or emotion on the topic. Worse than that, there is generally complete inaction and inertia.

Some of you may feel I’m being too hard on the church, and that ultimately people will do what they want, and that personal responsibility still has a place in this topic. And you’re right, and that’s the balance in the topic for me. Men and women who casually have unprotected sex and then abort the child without more than a moment’s thought… I agree that abortion in this case is simply wrong, and should not be an option. But I have trouble with a form of compassion that would begin and end with the child, and not consider the entire picture, as I tried to make clear above.

So what am I asking of you, believers?

1. Bow your heart in prayer to God on this topic. I believe I have said what God would will me to on this issue, and I beg that you consider it. If you have never deeply considered it, please ask God to reveal more of his heart to you.

2. Find your place to serve, be it prayer or more. Everyone has different gifts, and there are places for all. Some of you are called simply to minister to the hearts of women considering this or recovering from it. I know some of you have a simple and Godly kindness and mercy about you that I simply don’t understand, but I bless God that he gives us those like you. We need all gifts.

3. Share with me any organizations or churches or groups that do what I described above, and do it well. As I mentioned, I know the entirety of Christians in America do not neglect these issues. I would love to be in contact with those who are miles ahead of what I said above.

Thank you for reading. I hope my heart and conviction was not mis-understood. I welcome your comments on this one, whatever they may be.

There are 770 abortions for every 1,000 live births in NYC (CDC).*

Whoa. Hold on, now what? That’s saying that every time the 1,000th baby gets born in New York City, 770 pregnancies/babies have been aborted? I can’t wrap my mind around that.

Moving Beyond the Statistics

So while I by no means have come to terms with that number, I have found that it has had one effect on me – it breaks my notions about the topic, as well as breaking my heart. It makes me weep while I commute. It makes me realize that a merely political stance on the topic is not a place I want to be in. I don’t want to be able to produce eloquent reasoning about the topic, to change people passionate about the topic (i.e. very much passionate about a right to choice, but not actually intending to have an abortion themselves). There has to be more.

So what’s this “more”, then?

Keep in mind these are my initial thoughts about the topic, be gentle on me =).

This “more” is about sacrifice. It’s about love, and courage. It’s going WAY past the notions that prayer (the sort of blanket prayer with no specifics, just asking God to end abortion in the U.S.) and voting for the pro-life candidate are going to magically change the hearts and minds of the people. The problem with these two solutions is neither offer a “better way” for the desperation of some seeking an abortion.

Here’s what I suggest, ranked in order of importance to me. I’m not advocating you agree with me, but here’s what God has placed on my heart:

• 1. Adoption - Perhaps because I feel called to it, God has impressed this answer to me over and over. I was reflecting on it earlier today, how close the words Abortion and Adoption are to one another and while not defined as antonyms, form direct opposites when viewed in light of children. I am starting to see more clearly how the adoption of an unwanted child is a redemption of the abortion of an unwanted child.

  To abort the pregnancy of a person is one of the most ultimate forms of rejection – rejection of the person completely, to the extent that they no longer live. No other answer to abortion is as extreme in the opposite direction as adoption. To adopt a child is the ultimate form of acceptance, to take a person who is not your family or your own child, and treat them as if they were, for the rest of their lives.

  I realize there are many roadblocks to why adoption isn’t the best answer – it’s prohibitively expensive for the adopter (a recent email I saw from a friend pegged the price through a particular agency between $20,500 and $35,000, depending on the circumstances), adoption law is very messy and can wear heavily on all involved, etc, etc. Not to mention, it’s clear the number of unwanted babies greatly exceed the number of people willing to adopt.

  Fortunately for me, these roadblocks aren’t the destruction of my hope, or my own calling. My responsibility extends to what God has entrusted me to. Right now (as in, like, today), that responsibility means praying and seeking a mother who doesn’t want or can’t care for her baby and would otherwise abort it, and adopting it. Yes it’s only one, and that’s a drop in the pond. But it has to start somewhere, and for me, this is my place.

• 2. Prayer - I know several paragraphs ago that I didn’t see generalized prayer and voting as the solutions to the issue. Though I would whole-heartedly agree that both of these things do help, especially given the small amount of sacrifice involved with each.

  But what I mean when I say prayer is much more specific, putting myself in a place where I can see God work, and be much more involved. It means going to abortion clinics and just praying for the unborn, and perhaps even pleading with the mothers who would enter the clinic. It means finding ways to serve and minister to people who struggle with the decision of aborting or keeping their baby, and falling on God to change their hearts.

  Put succintly, its the type of prayer that puts you in a place where God has reign to ask you to sacrifice in some way. For me, that could be adoption. For you, it could be any number of things. (a few examples: volunteering at organizations that offer counseling to mothers, accepting ridicule and shaming at those who disagree with your actions or beliefs, supporting others financially or emotionally through the adoption process either on the adopter or the mother’s side.)

• 3. Awareness - I hate the word “awareness”. It’s usually applied to something that most people are fairly aware of already (did you know that February was National National Awareness Month Awareness Month? Epic list of all awareness-themed months, for the whole year!).

  I will list it though, because I do believe that a part of what needs to happen is that the people around me also become passionate about the topic. A real part of the problem with this topic is that the people who are aborted never have any say in the matter. While other social issues around the world typically deal with people who are less able to speak for themselves (usually the poor, victims of war, racism, etc.), there often arises an advocate personally affected by the injustice to speak for their brethren.

  This will never be the case with abortion. It’s not the type of thing where an unborn child will ever be able to hold a rally in D.C. and speak for all the other unborn children.

  So this third reason, Awareness, is really the reason for this post. I’m personally of the belief that God is the one who breaks a person’s heart on this topic, and I believe that when the facts about the topic are laid bare (the numbers of abortions, the methodologies, etc.), a person will be more receptive to being against the act.

  Look for more posts about this topic. If you know of any good agencies or organizations for linking adopters and women considering abortion, let me know. If you have any questions/comments/concerns, please read the following information below. If you don’t, feel free to skip it as it contains info about what types of comments and discussions I will engage, and which I will delete.

  [Few ground rules for discussion. Fail to acknowledge them, and I promise your comment gets deleted.

  1. I'm not here to discuss whether abortion should be legal or not, or whether it is moral by the Bible or any other standard. I've come to an answer on this question (obviously) and debating these questions in the comments is a waste of time. God changes peoples hearts, and comments on blogs do not. I've tried to make it clear the purpose of the post isn't to try and sway your heart, only to let you know what I plan to do. If you'd like a theological explanation of how I feel about abortion, the Abort73's website has a fairly short discussion of the topic.

  2. I'm not going to discuss the issue of "what about rape, incest, health risk to mother or child". While it is a valid question, the VAST VAST majority of abortions have nothing to do with this question, if 770 babies are being aborted per 1,000 live births in NYC. I consider this question nearly exactly the same as asking a pacifist, "well what would you do if a person broke in and tried to murder your family, would you fight back then?" Sure, it happens, but its simply not the norm.

  3. If you can't behave by these two simple rules, I'll just lock the comments. If you want to discuss it further or in a more personal manner than in blog comments, email or facebook-message me. eric and henderson at g and mail dot com. Take out the and's and the at.

  4. If you can't help yourself and have to make this political, comment on this post, which addresses the topic very well. Britt is teh smart.]

  * Sourced from the CDC – Link to report, from 2002. Specific link to said info can be found by going to that report, and doing a Find (Ctrl- or Apple-F) for the phrase “776 per 1,000 in NYC”, without quotes.

  ]]> http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/10/abortion/feed/ 6 http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/09/the-%e2%80%9ceat-together%e2%80%9d-test-or-a-post-about-deep-community-part-two/ http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/09/the-%e2%80%9ceat-together%e2%80%9d-test-or-a-post-about-deep-community-part-two/#comments Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:00:10 +0000 Eric http://www.fraggedformysins.com/?p=601 This is the second dose about community from me. Part one is here.

  So last time I promised I would talk more specifically about how community looks in my current life. Perhaps you could call this some form of a ‘state of our community’ address.

  As I mentioned on Tuesday, Heather and I have been part of a house church for nearly three years. One of the major draws of this way of doing church was the hope that we would be able to be in deeper intimacy and community with the people around us. I could certainly pop off all the theoretical reasons that come to mind about how that would work, but I think only just lately are we starting to get a grasp on that deeper form of community.

  I don’t want it to sound as if we’re not making progress and God isn’t drawing us closer together, though. Since 2005, we’ve moved in with another couple and their two kids, and since were joined by a single teenage guy (I call him the pet teenager. awesome). The d10′s have two single guys living in their spare bedrooms, both awesome dudes. Our house church has grown closer together, and we’ve really connected with one another.

  But more to the point, for the first time I can say I truly love my circle of friends. Definitely all of the people I see week-to-week, all the couples, all their awesome kids, all the single people. I’d do anything for any of them, and I believe they would do the same for me. I don’t know if in times past I would necessarily have said that. Maybe, maybe not. This may seem harsh if you knew me in the past, but I’m just trying to be honest.

  As I said earlier, I think we’re just starting to get there, though. Two Tuesdays ago, we had a meeting about this very topic. One of the couples shared about how they yearned for closer friendships between us, where it wouldn’t be wierd or awkward for us to be more spontaneous and sharing more meals/time together. They encouraged us that perhaps some of the distance/boundaries between us had no place in the kingdom of God, and were more drawn from a worldly perspective on friendship.

  Additionally, H and I could definitely develop deeper friendships with those we live with. Despite sharing many meals together, we rarely make time/use our time to really do more than just live in a routine. The d10′s and their two single fella’s are sort of crazy busy, and have eaten precious few meals together.

  I’ll probably talk more about this topic in the future, or at least I hope to. Please feel free to share any thoughts you have about these things, good or bad.

  ]]> http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/09/the-%e2%80%9ceat-together%e2%80%9d-test-or-a-post-about-deep-community-part-two/feed/ 0 http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/09/the-eat-together-test-or-a-post-about-deep-community/ http://www.fraggedformysins.com/2008/09/the-eat-together-test-or-a-post-about-deep-community/#comments Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:00:46 +0000 Eric http://www.fraggedformysins.com/?p=564 (tl;dr version: if you aren’t close enough friends that you could be talking to them on the phone, and take a wizz while they’re still on the phone and they know you’re wizzing, then you probably won’t be friends with them if one of you leaves the social group that links you. this only applies for guy to guy friendships, as far as I know).

  It’s always been interesting to me to watch what happens to my friendships when someone I am change the social circles I am a part of, usually by moving. Time for a short history lesson. It’s 2003/2004, and Eric and Heather go to church in Smyrna, GA.

  We had a fairly strong community of people, a college Sunday school class that I had generally assumed would stay friends for quite a long time. We went to each other weddings, even being ushers/groomsmens/cake-cutters/servants in said events.

  Then Heather and I moved to Lawrenceville, and stopped attending the church. That was 4 years ago. To this day, there’s only one person I’ve stayed in close contact with from that church: Adam Walker.

  So that was the summer of 2004, and we started attending a traditional church in Duluth. It was and is a great church, and we definitely found a place to minister both to the body itself as well as the community around it. Same situation, Sunday School class, spent time together inside and outside the church.

  Then in the fall of 2005, the d10′s have this crazy idea that God wants them to start a house church. So we transition away from the church in Duluth, and have been part of that house church since. And from our time at the traditional church, there’s only one person I’ve kept in contact with: Josh Brown 1.

  So what did I learn from those situations? At least for me, this rule stands: only the friendships with people in a social group that you can comfortably share a meal with alone will be able to survive the removal of the social group, usually by you or them leaving.

  So you want to know who you’ll be friends with in 5 to 10 years? Look for the people who you eat dinner with, and it’s just you and them. If you only eat together or hang out when its following some event, or through a group of mutual friends, my short experience in life would seem to indicate that your friendship won’t last unless something changes.

  Of all our friends, only the Walker’s and the Brown 1′s were we close enough to that our friendships could stand on their own, not on the link of another person or a church. And I still talk to Adam and Josh at least twice as week. Josh just moved ot Nashville, and Adam loves him some doorhangers long-time.

  This is Part 1. Part 2 will look at how this plays out in my current social circle, which has to do with house church and how that’s changed/hasn’t changed things.

  Quick notes:
  - I’m not suggesting that just cause you ate dinner with a person or couple that your friendship is in someway sealed. There’s a level of closeness you reach with someone that makes meeting for a meal much more… comfortable.
  - This post was birthed out of my reaction to reading the first half of Anna’s recent rant, appropriately entitled: “Rant”. The post talks primarily about a similar experience of the Brown’s, where they left a church and assumed they would remain friends with the people in the church. Specifically:

  I can remember people telling us on our last few weeks how much they would miss us. Moms and Dads would thank us for the difference we had made in their kid’s lives, then follow that with, it’s a shame your relationship won’t be the same. Call it immaturity or ignorance, my response would always be “well don’t worry, we’re not going anywhere. We’re leaving this church, but not your lives.” I would laugh with Josh about how people kept saying they would miss us in their lives. I always thought they thought we were abandoning them, and we would just kind of laugh and say, BUT WE’RE NOT LEAVING YOUR LIFE! It really became comical, and I laugh looking back at how many times we said things like “but we will still be at your basketball game” or “we will still be at your birthday party” or “we’re still going to dinner Thursday night, right?”

  It never dawned on me that when we walked out of that church for the last time, we were basically walking out of a lot of our closest friends lives. Not by our choice. But it happened.

  People didn’t know what to do with us. We didn’t get invited to the little socials that we knew were still happening. Just because Josh and I left the church didn’t mean all the kids didn’t go to Wendy’s every Sunday night anymore.

  Now, I didn’t know the Brown’s at this point in time, but I think *some* of what happened is what I described above. The friendships were enabled by mutual membership at a church. Now obviously I can’t really speak for the people whom they knew deeper or the people who bad-mouthed them, that’s another issue entirely, but I would guess half of the friendships couldn’t happen without the enabling social org.

  Having spoken to Anna further about this (since writing the post), she did say that alot of the people were those she knew grewing up… and I can’t speak for those people, that just sucks.

  Look for a follow-up post soon.

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